Labour rebel criticises ‘Dickensian’ welfare cuts as MPs debate bill ahead of vote – UK politics live

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Several MPs now – opposition and Labour – have argued that one problem with the bill is that it is primarily motivated by the need to save money, not by the need to get more people into work.

The New Economics Foundation, a leftwing thinktank, has made the same case in its statement on the bill.

Dan Carden (Lab) said. he wanted welfare reform. But he said these plans were based on the need to save money.

I have been frustrated that ministers have continued to say that this bill is rooted in fairness. Its origins came about, as far as my recollection goes, as a £5bn cut from Treasury, and I think that has marred the whole situation moving forward, and the political mess that it has unleashed is the result of a lack of a clear purpose.

The Lib Dem MP Tom Morrison said that MPs came to the Commons “to fight for the most marginal and vulnerable”. If they voted for this bill, they would be letting these people down, he said.

The Guardian would like to hear what readers have to say about Labour’s first year in government. There are more details of the call-out, including a form where you can make a contribution, here.

Emma Lewell (Lab) started her speech by saying she was sad Labour has ended up in this place.

She said she could not understand why a Labour government was not imposing employment support in place first, before cutting benefits.

And she said she was worried that the Timms review looked as if its results were '“predetermined”.

She went on:

The north-east region has the highest number of disabled people in England, and the number of people searching for work outpaces,the number of available jobs. How on earth will cutting the universal credit health element incentivise those people to go out and find a job that doesn’t even exist.

All this was being done to save £2.5bn, she said. But that money could be better found elsewhere.

She said if MPs voted for this, their constituents would never forgive them.

I have beefed up the post at 2.27pm with more quotes from Kemi Badenoch’s speech. You may need to refresh the page to get the update to appear.

Abrahams says the bill is a “dog’s breakfast”.

But she says she thinks there are amendments that can improve the bill.

And she urges the government to drop the clauses in the bill that would impose a four-point rule on future Pip claimants.

(That means they would only get the daily living part of Pip if they score at least four points on one daily living descriptor. Someone needing help with washing their lower body, which currently scores only two points, would not qualify on this particular skill.)

Graham Stuart (Con) intervenes. He claims three million disabled people entered the labour market under the last government. He asks Abrahams if she is worried the measures in the bill will stop that happening in future.

Abrahams says they have to stop that happening.

Debbie Abrahams, the Labour chair of the work and pensions committee, is speaking now.

She says welfare cuts can have “devastating consequences”. She goes on:

Too many people relying on social security support to survive have died through suicide, starvation and other circumstances exacerbated by their poverty.

Lib Dems claim two-tier welfare 'unBritish', and it's 'Orwellian' for some disabled people to be 'more equal than others'

Lindsay Hoyle calls Steve Darling, the Lib Dem work and pensions spokesperson. And he said that, after Darling has finished, he will impose a six-minute limit on on speeches.

Darling says the Lib Dems are supporting the Maskell amendment.

He says some of the comments from Labour high command about the bill, such as Keir Starmer’s reference to “noises off”, have been concerning.

And he says it is “shameful” the way the bill is being rushed through. “We all know that rushed bills are poor bills,” he says.

He says he is particularly concerned that the bill will create a “two-tier system”, with existing claimants getting more generous benefits than new claimants.

This two-tier approach to this system is wrong, and I and the Liberal Democrats have grave concerns that this is unBritish, it’s unjust …

We’ve heard from the minister saying it’s been done before. But that doesn’t make it right. It is almost Orwellian that we will be having a system where in our law, we say that all disabled people are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Maskell says even at this 11th hour she would still ask the government to withdraw the bill.

She says there should be a proper consultation instead.

There is a reason why we are a dystopian state of excessive wealth and abject poverty. It is because governments focus on what they value most, and for these [disabled] people, they never get the attention.

She says disabled people want reform. But not by this bill.

She ends:

As Nelson Mandela said, may your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.

'I cannot cross by on the other side' - Rachael Maskell says she can't ignore what 'Dickensian' cuts will do for disabled

Rachael Maskell, the Labour MP who has tabled the rebel amendment, is speaking now.

She says 138 deaf and disabled people’s organisations have backed the reasoned amendments that would kill the bill.

She recalls a constituent visiting her, with his young daughter. He could not work because of his mental health condition. He said, if is benefits were cut, “it would be better that I wasn’t here”.

She says people with fluctuating conditions are particularly worried.

(Liz Kendall tried to address this point earlier – see 2.01pm.) She goes on:

These Dickensian cuts belong to a different era and a different party.

They are far from what this Labour party is for – a party to protect the poor, as is my purpose for I am my brother’s keeper, these are my constituents, my neighbours, my community, my responsibility, and I cannot cross by on the other side for one, let alone for the 150,000 who will be pushed further into poverty.

Badenoch says welfare bill is 'rushed attempt to plug chancellor's fiscal hole'

Kemi Badenoch, the Conservative leader, is responding for her party.

She started by saying

We are staring down the barrel of a crisis that no serious government can ignore. The welfare system no longer works as it should. What was once a safety net has become a trap, a system designed to protect the most vulnerable is now encouraging dependency and dragging this country into deeper debt.

She accused Liz Kendall of perpetrating the “fiction that all of this was caused by the last government”.

The last government reformed welfare by introducing universal credit, she said.

UPDATE: Badenoch said:

By 2030, on this government’s spending plans, we will hit £100bn on health and disability benefits alone, that is more than what we spend on defence, and this should make everyone in this House stop and think, because this bill does nothing to fix that problem, and that is why we cannot support it.

The Conservative party are the only party in this house urging restraint, and unless this house acts … they will bankrupt our children. They will bury the next generation under a mountain of borrowing and debt, and they will do it, not because we had no choice, but because they lacked the courage to choose.

A fundamental and serious programme to reform our welfare system is required, and this bill is not it. This bill is a fudge, and I feel sorry for [Kendall], she looks as if she’s being tortured.

We all know why this is happening, this is a rushed attempt to plug the chancellor’s fiscal hole. It is driven not by principle but by panic. The changes were forced through not because they get more people into work, but because someone in 11 Downing Street made a mistake.