Dining across the divide: ‘He talked about cancel culture going too far – Gregg Wallace came up’

4 hours ago 9

Ben, 45, Dorset

Occupation Sustainability lead in the construction industry

Voting record Labour in the last election, but feels more aligned with the Green party

Amuse bouche Ben was a Pampers baby model. “I think my mum was paid for it, and got a healthy supply of nappies”

Neil, 70, Dorset

Occupation Retired from a career in aviation

Voting record Conservative in the last election. Previously either Conservative or Lib Dem

Amuse bouche Neil likes to write, and has a computer full of unfinished novels. “I’m good at beginnings, middles and ends, but I can’t make any match”

For starters

Neil I was expecting a rabid Marxist, but my first impressions of Ben were that he was a really charming chap, and so he proved to be. He’s married with four children. I’m also married with four children, but I also have grandchildren. I had crispy squid with a mango, chilli and lime salsa to begin with, then a lemon sole.

Ben We were both wearing tan chinos and a blue shirt. We were a guarded to begin with, sounding each other out. I also had the calamari, then a sea bass with new potatoes and a white creamy sauce. The food was phenomenal.

Ben and Neil chatting across a restaurant table

The big beef

Neil Woke is a word I struggle to use. We need to get back to the old “sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me”. You shouldn’t go around saying stuff that is clearly offensive, or not true, and, if someone does, you’ve got every right to say, “Don’t speak to me like that”, but don’t completely rip them apart.

Ben I think young people are far more aware of their mental health, of the impact of trauma, of wanting to be able to live their lives in a certain way. For me, that’s what we mean when we talk about woke culture, and it’s a positive thing. I think Neil feels it has all gone too far, and he talked about cancel culture. Gregg Wallace came up.

Neil If it was just for saying something a bit stupid, which I’m sure we’ve all done, Gregg shouldn’t have lost his livelihood. It should have been: look, Gregg, you’re being an idiot, don’t say stuff like that, it’s not appropriate. And that’s it, walk away. But some parts of the media have ripped him apart. If it transpires he’s done something worse, any physical contact, that’s a different story – then you’re on your own, mate.

Ben I agree that you have to be really careful with cancel culture. I’m also OK accepting apologies from people. I do, however, believe there are people in the public domain who need to be able to stand up and be counted. If someone has been found to have made inappropriate sexual comments, then absolutely I don’t think that person should be working in that industry or sector again.

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Sharing plate

Neil I’ve never voted Labour, but in my view Tony Blair was the best Conservative prime minister we’ve had in decades! Starmer’s heart’s in the right place, but he could do with exhibiting a little bit more charisma. Come on, Keir, a little bit more pizzazz.

Ben I grew up in a very Tory household, and became more progressive. I do agree with sensible conservative values, but I haven’t ever seen those in place. I’m not a staunch Labour voter, either; I’m a tactical voter.

For afters

Neil Three of my grandchildren live in Cornwall, and in the next 10 years they may be looking to buy somewhere. I wouldn’t like to think they’ll be priced out by people with second homes, but by the same token I’m not going to deny the right of somebody to do what they want with their money. An act of government that says you can only ever own one home wouldn’t be appropriate; it’s like a tax on being wealthy, and there are other taxes on being wealthy.

Ben I am quite happy with a local authority saying we don’t have enough housing for people, so we’re going to ban Airbnb, or double the council tax on them, or whatever. Their job is to make sure local people can thrive.

Takeaways

Ben Social media algorithms pitch people against each other. Sitting down with someone, having a discussion, is a very human way of being able to resolve some challenges.

Neil It was a case of good old-fashioned British compromise. We weren’t shouty – no shaking of fists or banging the drum like you might see from our colleagues across the Atlantic. Ben gave me a lift home. Charming chap.